Two other posts about the Attack on Gay Israeli youth were recently published on this blog: by Or Bareket and by Maital Rozenboim
A grave thing happened in Israel last night. A terrible thing happened, in Tel-Aviv of all places. It was vile, but not particularly surprising. Tel-Aviv is considered a gay-friendly city, and that is true, to a large extent. The true spirit of Tel-Aviv seems to be in accepting those who are different; it is the place in Israel where minorities of all kinds can feel (relatively) at home. However, Israel is becoming increasingly polarized, and there is a large community of zealous people that, as a group, do not accept those who are unlike them.
This intolerant community is a community of Orthodox Jews. Not all Orthodox Jews are part of this group, but nevertheless this group cannot be ignored. The people of this group are special in their Jewishness, some of them bent on preserving their Jewishness the way it was in the Jewish shtetls of Europe, others prefer to express their Jewishness by clinging to the law of the promised land, of the whole land of Yisrael, promised to them by God. Being gay does not fit their idea of Judaism, and it offends their sense of morality. This community, several hundreds-of-thousands strong, whose capital is Jerusalem — the whole Jerusalem, of course, both east and west — was recently rallied to battle by some of the most popular and influential Rabbis in the Israeli public sphere, among them arguably the most popular Rabbi of all — Ovadia Yosef. These Rabbis have called, in no uncertain terms, to kill homosexuals, to slay the “homosexual plague”. And, in most likelihood, a first (and hopefully last) step of that biblical act of purging was performed last night. With a gun, not a spear; on youth, not adults; in the streets of Tel-Aviv, not Jerusalem; but yes, there was some good ol’ Orthodox purging done last night in Tel-Aviv.
(Disclaimer: From now on I will assume the killer was a religious Jew, possibly Ultra-Orthodox or right-wing nut. The facts are not yet clear. For all we know, it could have been Jack the Ripper. This post does not become much less relevant if it was a secular person, a satanist, or a gay person with an agenda; and it’s complicated as it is. So just keep in mind that the facts are not yet clear).
The writing was on the wall. Literally, I mean, the writing was actually on the wall, written in big black letters, on many a wall in Jerusalem, with Rabbis signing and giving their own individual battle-cries, each miraculously suitable as a soundbite. The writing was present in the Israeli public sphere for a long time, back in my youth as far back as I can remember, in calls of Rabbis to get rid of the abomination. With all the tolerance and gay-friendliness in Tel-Aviv-of-above, there is a Jerusalem-of-below which declares “We’re here, we’re Orthodox, and we will get rid of the Sodomites”. It is impossible to capture this call in a single blog post. I will thus only discuss the latest big call, the one from June 2009.
Less than two months ago, around the time of this year’s Jerusalem Gay Pride Parade, one of the most prominent Rabbis, Ovadia Yosef, was featured in a widely-circulated poster (pashkevil) where he writes “This is an abomination; We are all Phinehas” [my translation]. His statement refers to the Gay Pride Parade marching in the streets of the holy city. For a secular Jew it is easy to see such a poster on the street and pay no heed: this material is not addressed at us. And even if we do read it, not many remember who Phinehas is and what role he played. However, as noted back then by bloggers Yossi Gurvitz (who also writes on this blog) and Amir E. Aharoni this is a thinly-veiled call for murder. Phinehas is a biblical figure revered for an act of holy zeal in the name of God: he ran a spear through Zimri (son of a Jewish bigwig) and Cozbi (the daughter of a Midianite high-roller, a gentile) while they were having sex. These were times when some Midianites were trying to harm Jews. Zimri was openly defying the orders of Moses, by fraternizing with Midianites. Phinehas, in a “moment of great strength born of holy zeal” (sayeth Wikipedia) slayed them both simultaneously with a spear. He penetrated them both with a holy Jewish giant phallus, if you will. This is the story of Phinehas. Phinehas is revered in Jewish tradition for being the one to “slay the plague”, and God promiseth him and his seed eternal priesthood. Then cometh Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, in 2009 A.D., and asks his followers to go in Phinehas’ footsteps. He was asking this using thinly disguised code which is clear to anyone with knowledge of the bible (or with access to Wikipedia, for that matter).
On the same pashkevil, another Rabbi, Moshe Shternbuch (Ashkenazi this time; must cover all the bases, you know), writes about the gay community “They are Amalekites”. And we all know what should be done to Amalekites, right? (Yes Rachel, we should blot their memory from under heaven, we should kill both man and woman, and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey; very good). Also see the recent discussion between Andrew Sullivan and Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic Monthly’s Blogs. In short, Rabbi Shternbuch commands whoever is willing to listen to smite the gays mercilessly, for they are dangerous to Jewish kind. These are the words of a religious leader in Israel, of a Rabbi guiding his flock. They will not all obey, of course. Some fear prison, others are sympathetic (promiscuous?), others fearful and fainthearted. But it takes just one.
The religious establishment uses gays as a punching bag. This is not only because gays are infidels by Orthodox-Jewish law. That’s only part of the story. It is also because Orthodox Rabbis and Orthodox members of parliament get public support — support from their public, that is — for expressing these sentiments. They are being politically rewarded for hate speech. An Israeli blogger, Aviad Kidron collected today some more examples of such hate-speech from the last few years. Two of these examples, both from the last two years, are by Nissim Zeev, a member of parliament from the religious party Shas. He preached that “Homosexuals should be treated like avian flu” and that “We should purge this filth, otherwise we’ll be infected with AIDS like the countries of Africa” [my translations]. (The same Nissim Zeev said today that those who are holding him responsible are engaging in Blood Libel). As far as I know, these kinds of hate-speech and calls for violence were never investigated or prosecuted by Israeli authorities. (I should say that Israel has seen little anti-gay hate-crime of such severity, to date; perhaps, after this incident, calls for violence against gays and other minorities will be treated more harshly by authorities. In my opinion, most likely not).
For those who believe in the Torah as an absolutely literal truth (and there are meager few of those), there is no other way. Recall that by most accounts, Sodomy is a capital sin in the bible: “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” (Leviticus 20:13). The test of Religion is to adapt itself to reasonable standards where people can practice to their spiritual satisfaction without infringing on the society they live in. In this test, Mainstream Orthodox Judaism fails miserably. If Israel had Halakha-law, gays might be put to death, like in Iran. By some secular contemporary Israeli views, if the decision to put gays to death was accepted by a majority of the people, then it is democratically decided, and thus should become law; the same people think that in such a scenario, it would be immoral and should be impossible for a judge to spare these people’s lives, for they are doing what was deemed to be illegal and punishable by death. (See Rod’s post in his Hebrew blog). This is the paradox of minority rights (or lack thereof) in current-day Israel. I will try to write much more on this subject in the future.
That’s it about the writing on the wall. Post-factum, it’s easy to see. Bloggers have seen it pre-factum and alerted anyone willing to listen. The (secular) media was relatively quiet and never addressed this as more than crazy anecdotes to amuse the readers (”oh, look what this guy said today, that according to Halakha, gay people are worse than cattle. Oh, these crazy orthodox people, hardy har har”). Now the orthodox establishment will say that they are being wrongly accused, will say that the man who did this is a “bad apple” — just like the most famous bad apple of them all, Yigal Amir — that every person is a special and unique snowflake that should be cherished, that the way of Halakha is a way of peace. Until the next time they beat a woman that dared sit in the front half of a bus, that is.
There is one other bitter, gruesome, anecdote. The bodies of the victims were collected and taken away by ZAKA: the Disaster Victim Identification Organization, which is an officially-recognized volunteer’s organization, most of its members ultra-orthodox men; it enjoys massive public support, and its primary mission is to bring bodies of Jews to “proper Jewish [Orthodox] burial”. According to Orthodox belief, all parts of the body (including spilt blood) have to be buried together, because when the Messiah comes and the dead are resurrected, the bodies of those who were improperly buried will be revived in flawed form, without the organs they were not buried with. The latter part is not believed by all (I hope), but the custom remains. (Incidentally, this is one of the reasons that cremation is very rare among Israeli Jews, though it is not the only reason). The bodies of the murdered — who are infidels by most interpretations of Jewish law — and their blood, were thus carefully collected by a group of religious ultra-orthodox Jewish men. The same group whose prominent Rabbis consistently declare that gay people cause earthquakes and bring destruction on Israel. If this chills your blood, you’re not the only one; but there is more. One of those ZAKA workers that was involved in “clearing” the murder scene told an Israeli news agency: “Surprisingly, there was little blood in the basement. [...]. Near a small table there lay next to each other the bodies of the man and the girl. It looked like they were shot point-blank and that the murderer who entered the basement had a very focused target — to shoot them first”. The scene sounds almost pastoral, like a scene from “Leon”. It also sounds false: this testimony is contradicted by other testimonies who say it “looked like a bloodbath”. The same article was trying to keep open the hypothesis that this homicide — a man walking into an LGBT meeting and spraying everyone with bullets, with 10 people injured and two dead — might have been not a hate crime but a personal vendetta of some sort, maybe over personal matters. Needless to say, such a scenario would clear the religious community of guilt. If I guess correctly — and this is pure speculation — the ZAKA person was telling an untruth, designed to rid his community of guilt, at least in the short term. As Yossi Gurvitz likes to point out, the Halakha permits one to lie if the lie is meant to prevent violence against one’s community. If I guess correctly, then this ZAKA volunteer was somewhat stretching this mandate to lie, while working on a murder scene where corpses of Homosexuals killed by an Orthodox Jew were collected by Orthodox Jews and brought to Kosher Orthodox Jewish Burial. For the Lord giveth and the Lord hath taken away, blessed be the name of the Lord.
Elad-vav is a permanent guest writer for IsraLeft.org
Who’s Rachel?
Brown Brownie: (is there any other kind of Brownie?)
Yes, on my way to dinner right now I realized that someone will ask. Rachel is a Shul child, about 10 years old, who knows the bible very well and learned everything they taught her in Shul. She answers all of the teacher’s questions and is a model student. She’s a bit of a teacher’s pet, actually.
I made her up. The name is very natural when you’re thinking in Hebrew and trying to find a traditional-sounding name for a child, because of the common proverb “In your little daughter Rachel”.
This proverb, by the way, means “a detailed specification that leaves no room for doubt”. Except that that’s not the proverb at all. The proverb actually says “In your younger daughter Rachel” since Rachel was not little or young at all, just young*er*, than Leah (Rachel was 22 at the time). But the Hebrew proverb can be syntactically translated both ways.
I haven’t managed to find a good online explanation in English for the reason that the phrase “in your younger daughter Rachel” means “a detailed specification that leaves no room for doubt”. Maybe someone who doesn’t know wants to guess the answer.
@elad-vav: I can help with that. When Jacob tells Lavan the pay he wants for his work is Rachel, he says (My translation): “I shall work for you for seven years in your younger daughter Rachel”. This is an unnecessary repetition, and Jacob does that to ensure he is well understood. Rachel – not just any Rachel, but your daughter Rachel, and to seal up the possibility of Lavan switching his daughters’ names, younger daughter. he emphasizes it because at the time it wasn’t customary to wed the younger sister before the older one (Leah). Lavan still cheated him, but Jacob’s codition was made in high detail and with no room for doubt.
Seeing all those links and incidences together really brought it home for me, regarding the religious’ hate mongering.
I’m not surprised, but at the same time, that’s a hell of a lot of hate coming from a pretty distinct part of the population.
Thanks for compiling all that.
Mel: Thank you. I have to say that, sadly, there’s plenty more. And it’s not directed only at the gays. Women, leftists, Arabs. They all get it. The concept of The Other has never been more vivid.
I also wanted to translate a full quote of Nissim Zeev. This is as good a place as any:
He said about a member of parliament: “In his chambers, there is a homoist [sic], that everyone is disgusted to go near to. A homo, according to the Halakha, is worse than cattle [behema, derogatory] and you put a homo in your chamber. He is your main adviser, and because of him, it is impossible for people who want to approach your chambers to come speak to you. You’re [effectively] blocking them, since he’s gay. The chambers should be clear of people like that.”
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/1,7340,L-2703253,00.html
These are the words of a member of the Israeli parliament. Looking at the parliament, Israel really seems like a 3rd-world country. Part of the problem is lack of accountability. No one really expects anything from these people. Or at least that’s what the left tells itself. The alternative is that they really represent the public. But that can’t be, right? Right?
By the way, Mel, if you read Hebrew you might be interested in Yossi Gurevitz’ Hebrew blog. It’s harshly worded at times, but very much to the point, and discusses exactly such issues:
http://www.hahem.co.il/friendsofgeorge/
There are many other Hebrew blogs, that I guess we should put in the links section. Rod’s blog is one of them, also dealing with similar subjects, from a different perspective:
http://nimrodavissar.com/blogica
You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to criticize Zaka. “Little” is a relative term, and this individual may have been comparing it to more bloody bomb attacks. This is the kind of hatred you get from the left who refuse to believe that the ultra-orthodox are actually capable of doing good things let alone such selfless acts of humanity.
You claim that these rabbi’s call for homosexuals to be murdered. This is a serious accusation which should not be made without citing a source. There is a massive difference between calling for the “killing of homosexuals” and the “slaying of the homosexual plague,” and if you have to resort to such a straw man argument, you’ve clearly lost touch.
@rationalbob: Thanks for the well-thought-out critique. You’re obviously wrong.
Zaka performs “selfless acts of humanity”. Yes, much like the Mormons who baptize Holocaust victims after their death are doing selfless acts of humanity. That is, these acts are considered good by the people doing them. In particular, I hereby ask that when I die, my body not be handled by Zaka people. (I was actually planning to write about this in my Hebrew blog). If there’s blood and gore, let the police clean it up, like in a modern country. Really, actually, who gave ZAKA the permission to collect bodies?
Seriously, I do not appreciate ZAKA’s favours. There are a lot of people in Israel that think they do me good by collecting my remains, or forcing me to have a religious wedding if I want to get married, or protecting my future children from the sodomite abomination. If you want your remains collected, you ask ZAKA to do it. For those who want it, it will indeed be a selfless acts of humanity (by the way, we all know the significance of mitzas, right? they’re never really selfless; selflessness as a rule has been tainted long ago — you’re supposed to collect mitzvahs, in your metaphorical mitzvah-box, in order to go to heaven or such).
Anyway, the Lord save me from people who think they’re doing me favours. You want their favor,s you ask them.
By the way, did you know that the head of ZAKA, Yehuda Meshi-Zahav, applauded the arson of the only body-crematorium in Israel? ZAKA were suspected of the arson, but nothing was proved (as in the case of many right-wing crimes). Or maybe one can claim that we don’t know who set it on fire — it could have been the illegitimate love-child of the chimney and the coals.
Incidentally, I actually didn’t have anything against ZAKA before I started researching for this post. You discover new ways in which government coerces you via Judaism (or the other way around) every day.
As for your second paragraph, if you think that “slaying of the homosexual plague” (and, as you conveniently forgot, saying “We are all Phinehas”, not to mention citing Amalek) does not equal “killing of homosexuals”, then we have really lost touch. Leave the straw man alone, he’s been through enough. Care to explain why saying “We are all Phinehas” does not ask for murder? Should Obadia Yosef also have specified an exact time and place of the murder in order to be considered hate-speech?
@rationalbob: I wonder. If Zaka are all about selfless acts of humanity, why is it I cannot choose where and how my body will be disposed of? Selfless acts of humanity are rarely forced down their recievers’ throats.
I wish Aner Ravon was here. He would explain to us how we’re Jewish because society thinks we’re Jewish, and thus our organs *must* be buried with our body since otherwise it offends other Jews; who are our brothers, since society considers us Jewish.
Actually, coming form that frame of mind, that’s a damn good argument.
Consider this: The leading Rabbis in Israel have published hundreds of books and given thousands of lectures, and you haven’t been able to find one clear statement where a leading Rabbi encourages or even permits one to murder a homosexual
Instead you have opted to put together a series of statements interspersed with your own mindless interpretations and innuendo to confuse the uninitiated. If orthodox Jews had twisted these statements as much as you have, these murders would be more common. But your elaborate conspiracy theory is demonstrably wrong for several reasons.
If leading Rabbis such as Ovadiah Yosef (who you called “arguably the most popular of them all”) had been calling for gays to be killed, incidents like these would be routine or else no one listens to the Rabbis altogether and you would have nothing to worry about anyway. Many many people hang off every word he says, and follow his instructions to the letter.
A very important aspect of Orthodox Judaism is “Yitamu Chatoim min Hooretz” and the Talmud’s interpretation “Chatoim veloi choiteim” i.e. sin should die but not sinners.
These Rabbis are calling in no uncertain terms for homosexuality to be wiped out insofar as they believe it to be a sin. Ovadiah Yosef was calling for people to publicly protest what he see’s as immorality, and Moshe Shternbuch was calling for homosexuality to wiped out.
As someone who has listened to hundreds of Rabbinical lectures, this is obvious. How many Rabbinical lectures have you listened to? You might want to listen to a few yourself before you position yourself as their interpretors.
Blaming Rabbis for for the murders of gays because they speak out against homosexuality is like blaming Priests for the murder of abortionists because they call them murderers (If you properly understood the Rabbinical position this analogy would make more sense). The fact that these incidents are so rare is proof positive that orthodox Jews don’t interpret these statements the way you have.
And the few madmen that carry out these acts have more serious problems than just a lack of religious spirit.
And you are completely wrong once again when you state that, “If Israel had Halakha-law, gays might be put to death, like in Iran.”
Comparing the death penalty in the Koran to that of the bible is a favorite tactic of those seeking to demonize the bible. But little could be further from the truth.
There are far too many conditions to satisfy the death penalty by a Jewish court so gays would have roughly the same chance of being put to death for homosexuality in Texas as they would have in a Rabbinic court 2000 years ago, much less today. Not to mention that the death penalty cannot be carried out without a sanhedrin, temple, sacrifices, king etc. etc. according to Jewish law itself.
@Pinchas:
A. You claim “Consider this: The leading Rabbis in Israel have published hundreds of books and given thousands of lectures, and you haven’t been able to find one clear statement where a leading Rabbi encourages or even permits one to murder a homosexual”
That is not true. Elad brought many examples of Israeli leading religious figures permitting the blood of Homosexuals. You don’t need to go any further than calling them Amalekites, really. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you what that means. That’s exactly the point. You’re claiming, and not for the first time, that unless a rabbi stated “Dear followers of mine, do kill homosexuals” this isn’t incitement. Would you have felt the same way towards a priest saying Jews are like a limping horse? Probably not. Saying that a pride parade must be stopped and that this time, we are all Phinehas, means just that – that we should all perform the very same act of zeal. What other commentary can you possibly find to this sentence? Saying, as did Nissim Ze’ev, that Homosexuals should be treated like avian flu – please, explain to me how this is not incitement. Saying that homosexuals pose a grave danger to Jews wherever they are (Anyone said Moyser?) – that’s permitting their killing, as any sane person knows that they are allowed to kill a person who puts them in grave danger.
B. “Instead you have opted to put together a series of statements interspersed with your own mindless interpretations and innuendo to confuse the uninitiated.
Oh, no one in his right mind would even need Elad’s insightful comments, though I’m glad he shared them with us. The series of statements, as you so eloquently put it, is clear enough within itself to anyone who knows who Phinehas was or what Amalekites mean.
C. “If leading Rabbis such as Ovadiah Yosef (who you called “arguably the most popular of them all”) had been calling for gays to be killed, incidents like these would be routine or else no one listens to the Rabbis altogether and you would have nothing to worry about anyway”
That is fantastically untrue, and the sad thing is I am sure that you knew it was when you wrote it. A few months ago, Rabbi Yuval Sharlo raised quite a stir when he permitted, under certain circumstances, pregnancy via artificial insemination. Women weren’t lining up for donations. The reason is, of course, the gap between “Permitted” and “Ordered”. Permitting something is not ordering it. In our case, it is enough that several of Israel’s important rabbis permitted – gave spiritual license to – the killing of homosexuals, for them to be trialed for incitement, which obviously didn’t happen. An old joke says that in Soviet Russia, what wasn’t forbidden was mandatory, and the trick was to remember which is which. Surely you’re not holding that Judaism works the same way, are you?
Furthermore, you’re claiming that the only way to see if rabbis have incited is after their words are carried out. If there aren’t many cases of religious people killing homosexuals, you’re holding, that means words that are unquestionably harsh aren’t that harsh at all. Fortunately, you’re dead wrong. Yelling “Fire” in a theatre is wrong even if no one listens to you, or no one gets hurt during evacuation. It’s wrong a-priori.
Moreover, I can turn that argument around so fast your head will spin. In 2005, a young Charedi by the name of Yishai Schlisel tried to stab pride parade participants, injuring three. Since he did that, and since he is a believer, and since you hold that people follow their rabbis en masse in corpore, that means that obviously he was pushed towards this by his rabbis. He would not have done it if they had told him otherwise, right?
D. “A very important aspect of Orthodox Judaism is “Yitamu Chatoim min Hooretz” and the Talmud’s interpretation “Chatoim veloi choiteim” i.e. sin should die but not sinners.
These Rabbis are calling in no uncertain terms for homosexuality to be wiped out insofar as they believe it to be a sin.”
Fortunately, in Hebrew – much like in English – the subject of a sentence is clear. When rabbis say “Otam”, “Hem” (They, them) they mean just that – the people. Calling homosexuals Amalekites (And not, as you hold, calling homosexuality “Amalekites”, which both makes no sense in a sentence and also is not what the text reads) means homosexuals, not homsexuality, should be wiped off the face of Earth, because it is Amalekites, not Amaelikiteness, who should be wiped. We are not illeterate.
Oh, and by the way, finish your sentence. “Vetamu chataim mehaaretz vehareshaim on einam” – And evil people are no more. Which, of course, is later used to explain “Mitzva Le’abed” – the order to kill people who practice Avoda Zara. We know our Judaism around here.
E.“Ovadiah Yosef was calling for people to publicly protest what he see’s as immorality, and Moshe Shternbuch was calling for homosexuality to wiped out.
As someone who has listened to hundreds of Rabbinical lectures, this is obvious. How many Rabbinical lectures have you listened to? You might want to listen to a few yourself before you position yourself as their interpretors.”
I love this argument, because it is dead wrong twice. First, I listened to dozens of rabbinical lectures. In Hebrew, mind you. I speak the language fluently, and I know for sure that rabbis say what they mean, and quite clearly. In fact, it’s a Jewish principle. Not only is what you’re saying not obvious from the texts which you have never laid eyes upon, it is quite entirely NOT what they have said, as I have shown above.
But let’s suppose you are right. Let’s suppose no one who had listened to a single rabbinical lecture would even dare think that calling homosexual Amalekites means it is a mitzva to kill them (Although, that exactly what it means). What happens with all of those who never attended a rabbinical class in their lives? These things weren’t said in a classroom filled with educated students. They were plastered all over the wall, said on TV and radio. They can be understood as a cry for murder – in fact, the person who put up the plaster photos Elad linked to to begin with is a religious person, and he understood them as such – and people should exercise more care when talking in public. Especially, since religious people have been known to attempt physical assaults on homosexuals before.
F. “Blaming Rabbis for for the murders of gays because they speak out against homosexuality is like blaming Priests for the murder of abortionists because they call them murderers (If you properly understood the Rabbinical position this analogy would make more sense).” So, if priests all over the US start calling Jews traitors and saying it might be nice if Judaism ceased to exist, you wouldn’t blame them when a crazed believer goes on a shooting spree in a schull? Surely, being anti-Judaism doesn’t mean one wants to kill Jews, right?
And the nice thing about this example, apart from showing Jewish double standards to their full extent, is that it’s not even close to what was really published. Because, once again, rabbis called loud and clear to wipe off homosexuals, not homosexuality. So, if a priest would say that Jews are the modren Amalekites and Christian followers are the modern Jews, you’d say it’s OK, right? Because, you know, anyone who had attended Sunday school knows that the priest was talking about Judaism, not Jews, even though he used the word Jews, and thus the priest cannot be held responsible if one of his followers actually went and killed Jews, right?
G. “And you are completely wrong once again when you state that, “If Israel had Halakha-law, gays might be put to death, like in Iran.”
Comparing the death penalty in the Koran to that of the bible is a favorite tactic of those seeking to demonize the bible. But little could be further from the truth.”
Go look at Leviticus 20:13. Read carefully. You say that comparing the death penalty in the Kuran and in the bible is wrong. Do explain what the difference is between the texts.
H. “There are far too many conditions to satisfy the death penalty by a Jewish court so gays would have roughly the same chance of being put to death for homosexuality in Texas as they would have in a Rabbinic court 2000 years ago, much less today.” First off, as someone who had attended hundreds of rabbinical lectures, you didn’t pay close attention. These “Limitations” are in the Talmud, not the bible. They are the limitations on any death penalty, not special for homosexuals – You need Sanhedrin, you need a temple (Surely, under Halacha law, those will be around) and two witnesses who had also warned the horrible sinner who dared loving someone from the same sex about his actions. You do NOT need a king. In fact, Sanhedrin was operating and handing out death penalties even after Herodes had died. Get your facts together.
Now, Elad claimed that “If Israel had Halacha law, gays might be put to death”. That sentence is entirely true. You’re claim – that it won’t be as easy as it is in Iran – is nice, although arguable, but entirely irrelevant. Elad’s statement is valid and true. Halacha law punishes homosexualism with stoning to death.
Better luck next time, though.
I think I’d like being a rabbi – I can say whatever I want without any accountability. there will always be the ones to explain how I was misunderstood, “you don’t know the halacha” “he actually meant this” etc.etc.
@Or Bareket: You have every right to call yourself a Rabbi – this title is free to use, and unregulated. I promise to respect your title as a Rabbi just like I do with any other Rabbis.
[...] impacted marginalized communities; communities fighting for full and equal rights. GLBT Israelis face high levels of homophobia and discrimination, while Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem are systematically denied full [...]